Wait, so this adult who voluntarily signed up to be on a Labor ticket, and get elected to a position she otherwise had no chance of winning, knowing full well the caucus rules, has been manipulated?
Sign up to Labor so you have a voice in the caucus, not in the senate. I find it a bit of a stupid rule, but she was fully aware of the situation and has/could have reaped the rewards such an opportunity provided to further her cause. Now she loses that voice.
Bridget Archer on the other hand gets elected on her own name now, and gets to speak her mind publicly in a party that lets her, which is great cos sheâs probably ignored in the caucus.
Do you change the rules to a club from the inside or the outside?
The world is not static. Sometimes institutions need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the future.
The stupidity of this is that weâre debating about Payman crossing the floor and not why she did it.
I take your point that the whole parliamentary process and that of both parties needs updating really. I donât know that this is a great way to do that. Surely she ends up with the greens then fails to win a seat when her term finishes. I donât know that her approach is broad enough in WA to be a success a la Jackie Lambie.
It requires introspection, foresight and, most problematically, untethering from the forces that have captured our governance.
Most of all it has realise that we are only as strong as our weakest. There is no glory in increasing the gap between our strongest and weakest. The phrase, âthe greater goodâ exists for a reason.
We need to stop assuming the worst in people. We need to know that the vast majority of people are fundamentally good.
Nooneâs suggesting sheâs a bad person,. The majority here probably support her position, including me. Iâd argue that sheâs taking a selfish and perhaps less effective approach to further what sheâs trying to advocate for.
The problem arises when the party uses her identity, that being a young refugee Muslim woman, to boost their âdiversityâ.
They did this with a young lesbian woman of Asian descent not so long ago as well.
When they wanted to use their voice they were told to toe the Middle Aged White Person line or theyâre out.
You canât champion diversity while simultaneously denying them their voice.
Labor have ballsed this up horrendously.
Iâve voted LNP my entire life, itâs how I was brought up. I voted Teal at the last Federal election (preferenced Labor) and Labor at the last State election (Janelle Saffin is a fantastic representative for the seat of Lismore).
I have seriously considered voting Labor at the next Federal election if their is no suitable Teal candidate.
Honestly, they can get fucked now. Theyâre no better than the LNP.
Iâve never informal voted in my life but the stage it is getting to I should probably just nominate, vote for myself, get 1 vote and call everyone a cunt on the way out given the way I feel about the whole situation right now.
Last year was the first year I didnât vote LNP and iâm happy for it. But considering shit like this, no way would I vote for Labor. One of the biggest things is that the behaviour of the major parties is going to drive us towards a European model where youâre going to have a huge number of minor parties with anyone wanting to form parliament having to make a shitload of deals. Canât remember which one, but one of the European Parliaments has had to make deals between left and right wing parties to form government. Imagine the disfunction of that sort of a situationâŠ
That is why you have major parties with decisions being made for all for the party to decide on and stick to. If you did not have this you would have individuals voting as they feel on every issue. Instead of having multiple small parties you would have more multiple individuals.
Any team has its rules. If you want to be in the team stick to the rules. If you are not prepared to stick by the rules run as an independent. Starting to be too many (2 so far) getting elected because they are part of the team and then changing their minds and keeping their seat.
Massive talkfest blown up out of all proportion over a crap grandstanding motion that was going nowhere. Move on.
I think itâs brought attention to the general issue with most of the Western World, which is their perplexing arse kissing towards an Israeli state thatâs happy to commit genocide. I can sort of understand (even if I canât support) our countryâs failure to act on Chinese and US crimes. Theyâre our biggest trading partners and you donât want to piss off the big guys. But itâs Israel. They donât do anything for Australia, their trading amounts are tiny, yet our government is more than happy to kiss arse and suck d*ck so as not to piss off the local Israeli population.
Itâs just absolutely amazing how one tiny little country in the middle of a geographically inconsequential area has THAT MUCH sway on global politics.
A tiny nation whose diaspora controls most of the media and heaps of the biggest companies/financial institutions in the US, hence their sway. Itâs no surprise the ABC and Lattouf thing happened - lobbying by well-connected rich people, that would cause a world of hurt if they donât get their way
As a huge critic of Israel myself, i donât think this accounts for it and I think this verges on anti-semitism as an explanation. The jewish diaspora has been pulling away from Israel steadily since the second intifada, although I think some have been swayed back to support Israel since Oct 7.
A huge part of the Republican movement in the US supports Israel because they believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. The book on Ezekiel says that a Northern power named Gog will rain fire and brimstone on Israel but then the lord will smite them come judgement day and only those who were on Israelâs side will get raptured.
This idea really took traction in the 80s (Reagan believed it and talked about it openly even earlier than this) and itâs part of why the far right, even the KKK and other Neo-Nazis, who follow the Christian Identity ideology, side with Israel over their opponents of colour. It was around this time they stopped talking about Jews secretly controlling the government and instead started talking about a more shadowy âNew World Orderâ (you know, the one the cookers think want to give us all vaccinesâŠ)
That doesnât really account for Australia. Weâve been supporters of Israel even since before the US was, all the way back to the Labor government in 1948. We did have prominent Jews support Israel even before that to Monash, leader of our Zionists, and obviously Lowy is pretty influential in our part of the world, but thatâs not enough to account for government policy nor for Murdochâs focus on the issue which does more than any Jewish-owned media or finance.
Itâs part support for a fellow settler colony, part toeing the line of the British (then) and part toeing the line of the USA (now).
Geez, anti-Semite is a bit harsh. No hostility or prejudiceâŠ. Itâs an observation - the same as saying that the cricket World Cup schedule is driven by all the Indian money in the gameâŠ. Same as saying that any FIFA decisions are driven by money-grubbing mafia that is only interested in itself, increasingly out of the Middle East, not the game
Iâd be saying a lot of the support stemmed from post WW2 and the Holocaust where there was an almost Collective Guilt as to what occurred. Remember that even when reports were sent to the West by Polish spies, there wasnât much credence put into the reports. Post WW2, they were seen as a people that had been oppressed for too long and needed to be repaid, especially by the West. The Israeli state has been very good in both working off of this Collective Guilt, while also spreading their money to control the correct people. The Jewish Lobby in the US is absolutely huge. Theyâve then used the whole Christian vs Islam schtick to bring as many right winger on board as well.
The way the quota system works for Senate votes you need 14.3% of the votes to get one of six seats. This can be achieved with as little as 7% of the primary vote and favourable preferences. To get two seats in one election you would need >20% primary votes plus favourable preferences. Not really feasible for the Greens or any other minor party.
Behind closed doors, where no one else can see it.
Penny Wong is a sell out, power grabbing game player who sold herself and others down the river by coming out and saying that we didnât need same sex marriage. She may have debated the debate of her life behind closed doors in support of it.
