Russia v Ukraine - WWIII or Putin's cliff dive?

Never Mind the B*ll*cks Political Bollocks
3054

I agree with shabby that this is not even fun to talk about let alone live through.

However it is (in my opinion) naive to think that Putin will ever stop when he’s done with Ukraine.

And when that senile, grifting, lying, misogynistic, hypocritical, pussy grabbing, raping, insurrectionist, climate chane denying, national secret selling (yup they were literally in the shitter at his place) malignant narcissist… and all round fuckwit, bows to the authoritarian he idolises… or worse hands the keys of the clown car to musk…or handmade’s tale Vance…

Then that Is a massive fucking chess piece off the global board… All of Europe, if not the world should be keeping a close eye. Not that anything can possibly be done… The toothpaste is out of the tube.

Community… empathy and thought about others has been lost (and the US has been at the forefront of this). That is why Trump and his ilk are so popular! all about me!.. what’s in it for me?!.. I got mIne!

Why do Humans as a species always have to learn the hard way?.. I think @hybrid said it way better:

I must say I do miss the days of a shadowy cabal of elites going about their grisly business in a discreet manner. Having a bunch of cunts running around going “I’m a cunt, and I’m going to act the cunt” is tiresome.

It is tiresome. This shit has been building up my entire lifetime (46) Selfishness, greed, mysogyny, corruption, religion., nepotism… just wanting to be violent (psychopath/cunt).

We could all just say fuck it… humans are not very nice but that gets us precisely nowhere.

so… i dont know…

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3055

It’s the classic trolleybus scenario.

If Putin and his henchmen, lets say a nice round 20 number, were taken out in airstrikes, or assassinations, or choose whatever colourful method of doing so, and in doing so would end the war tomorrow, saving the lives of tens if not hundreds of thousands of people, would it not be worth it?

It would be little comfort to the hundreds of thousands that are already dead, but would the overall result be worth it? I say yes.

I don’t think we’ll ever see Putin and his cronies be brought before a war crimes hearing. This war will only end with the Putin regime being stopped by force. Be it through the actions of the international community pulling their finger out to stop another Europe-wide conflict, or an internal uprising amongst the Russian population

Short of having a stroke that rewires his brain, he’s not going to pull back his troops and end the war. If he did, he loses his power and his cronies take over, and will ultimately try again.

Ukraine cannot win this war on its own, even with arms support. Short of a complete capitulation of the Russian war machine, the best I think Ukraine will achieve is small battlefield gains here and there with the front not moving back, with tens of thousands if not hundreds more soldiers and civilians dying.

If NATO and the EU get involved, Russia will inevitably overpowered and pushed back to its borders eventually, at the cost of hundreds of thousands of soldiers on both sides.

You cut the head off the snake, the body dies. You get Putin and his cronies, and Russia has no reason to be in Ukraine.

Rewind to Europe, between 1940 and 1945. There were multiple attempts on Hitlers life. None were successful. Had they been, millions of people may have survived.

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3056

Gonna go out on a limb here, and possibly get back into the huge arguments we had at the start of this all, but I simply disagree with you that this is automatically true, of either Hitler or Putin.

There’s an entire class of oligarchs who are backing Putin here. Real life isn’t like an action movie, it’s not cutting the head off the snake when another will just as likely take his place.

3057

Some eerily depressing similarities with how Israel treats Hamas, and how they justify decimating civilian populations to cut the head off their enemy. Not saying the cases are equivalent, but its not a great way to de-escalate. Last thing the world needs would be a radicalised Russian populace lashing out

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3058

If it were this simple the war would have been over the day it started.

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3059

Not to be outdone, the French-UK made Storm Shadow cruise missile had also been used to strike targets inside Russian territory. Also limited to Kursk region.

3060

US just approved the transfer of anti-personnel mines. A few human rights groups are up in arms, but in fairness there’s so many other mines and other issues, there’s probably not that much of an issue. Plus considering if Russia wins, there will be mass killings of the populace anyway

3061

With western rockets and missiles being allowed to strike Russia properly now, Putin has started up the nuclear sabre rattling again, stating that he is entitled to use Nuclear weapons against an enemy who use foreign made weapons that land inside Russia. .

3062

Not sure that’s a good reason in the case for…

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3063

Well the other guys were going to do big war crimes so we can do little ones…

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3064

War crimes as a concept could well be out the window soon anyway. I’m not seeing much about international law remaining with the assortment of governments in place or just over the horizon.

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3065

You’re right. Should be raping people in Kursk too. With a touch of phosphorus to help them see what they’re doing. Fuck the civilians.

I get there’s a win at all costs view, but isn’t that the whole point of having boundaries to war that doesn’t completely scorch the earth? If we can’t let Putin win, at what point do we just nuke the Kremlin?

3066

Theres no suggestions these are going to be used in Kursk. But are we forgetting the last time Russia was in Ukraine? Maybe google the Holodomor. Up to 5 million dead because they were using Ukraine as fodder to feed the rest of Russia. It’s easy to sit in Australia and complain about it, without seeing the consequences of a Russian win. Eveey single person in the armed forces will more thank likely be charged with treason. Families will be ripped apart and killed. Anyone with links to the current government will be dead and anyone thats so much as sent a cent to Ukrainian aid will be in prison. You’re looking at the entire Ukrainian population decimated.

You want proof, theyre doing it to Russian civilians now. Parents are being arrested and sent to prison because their 5 year olds make a picture of peace. Mariupol has been steadily filled with Russian. Crimea is arresting any bative Cossaks and theyve been ferrying Russians in to take over, with promises of cheap housing. Ukraine is literally in a do or die situation

3067

Fair points, and it is a bit idealistic I know. Just get a bit frustrated with the hypocrisy of so much of the west, who then turn around and wonder why the rest of the world doesn’t like us. Obviously Ukraine is very different from Afghanistan etc, but it’d be nice if we could be a bit more principled. Doesn’t always work though I guess, especially against Putin

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3068
3069

Kellog has a peace plan that pretty much involves Ukraine getting more aid only if they commence peace talks with Russia. On top of that, they would leave the frontlines as they are, something that Ukraine has unequivocally rejected.

3070
3071
3072

Ukraine just came out and said they’ve had 40,000 KIA from the military since the start of the war. No numbers on wounded or captured though. Russia has apparently had 700,000 total casualties, including KIA, captured etc. The front seems to have partially stabilized around Donetsk. There’s not been any significant gains for a bit over a week now. Although that could be partially due to winter hitting now.

Ukraine now has capabilities to launch jet powered drones 700km. They were revealed recently to the President and reports that they’re in full production mode to get them out.

3073

Reports suggesting that North Korean troops are even worse than what was once feared.

Varying reports that up to 500 were KIA on their first Kursk action. Other reports suggesting since then they’re hated so much by the battlefield generals that they’re refusing to put the North Koreans on the front line, preferring to use Mobiks (Conscripted Russians) and using the North Koreans as rear echelon troops.

Apparently despite being in the military for longer than the conscripts they have little to nil military understanding whatsoever.